Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
Tips for community owners for dealing with net thugs
Published on May 7, 2005 By Draginol In Living in Cyberspace

Every once in awhile you'll hear about a beloved website whose host has taken it down out of frustration with having to deal with Internet thugs. Internet thugs are, thankfully, not very common, but there are enough out there that they can wreck the experience in trying to admin a website.

So what is an Internet thug? An Internet thug is basically a "griefer". Someone who gets off on trying to anger and upset other people. They do this in a variety of ways and the most common way is to take advantages of loopholes or gaps in a website's forum system.

For example, when we designed the blog community JoeUser.com, we allow users to "blacklist" people. So if someone is causing them anguish, they can make them go away.  Now, the person can still try (with a different IP address) to come back as an anonymous user but the user can then make their blogs require a UserID to post and at that point, the griefer is usually stopped in their tracks.

But many sites don't have that level of protection. Some news systems only support anonymous commenting or no commenting at all (at which case, much of the enjoyment is taken away if no one can even interact).  On such sites, the thugs can go wild.

Other sites have more protections but "moderators", wizops, and other sub-administrators don't have complete access to them. That can enable a thug to target a particular moderator to try to get rid of them. And most volunteers have a lower threshold of pain before they'll quit.

For me, when faced with a "flight or fight" instinct I am inclined to go with the latter.  I've been running on-line communities for twenty years (literally, 1985 with Commodore 64 based BBSes on up).  I've seen these guys and they typically are serial griefers -- they get off on it so they keep doing it over and over again.  I've found that the only way to deal with them is use all the admin powers at my disposal to make it painful for them as well.  Most admins I've met tend not to want to play dirty or take the gloves off. The griefers count on that and hence can play their sadistic little games with impunity.

But like I said, I play rough. If someone's griefing me, I'll get nasty.  Instead of just removing their post, I'll edit their post.  And if that doesn't discourage them, I'll eventually start posting their IP address.  And if that doesn't work, there is a lot more uglier stuff (particularly if the griefer doesn't live in the US) that I can do.  But usually post editing is enough. 

For example, if a griefer writes: "You're a pathetic asshat, (user's real name when possible) . You should stick with having sex with your (insert relative) ."  I will change it to say (with their real name as the responder) "I wish I was a girl. Sometimes, when no one is around, I like to wear a dress. Not having any genitalia makes me confused sometimes about what I should do and that's why I act out. Can you forgive me?"

Your ability to deal with griefers is only limited by your own conscience, your affiliation with the site (if you're a moderator and not an admin, you should be talking to the site owner before you start wreaking havoc, the site owner might be better equipped to deal with the griefer), and of course your real world resources.  In my case, we have lots of lawyers so any would-be blow hard making legal threats can learn the hard way just how nasty the US legal system can be, especially to someone skirting the boundaries of cyber-terrorism.  Which also means you should keep a log of any posts that person has made for use as future evidence if necessary.

Griefers rarely get bored. They get off on trying to hurt other people. But they're usually stupid, lazy people who will take the path of least resistance. The best way to deal with them in my opinion is through discouragment. There's lots of potential targets for these losers, your best bet is to make yourself a less appealing target. And I do that by playing hardball with them.  It's not about revenge or getting them back or even justice.  It's purely about finding the lever that makes them go away when a simple ban just doesn't stick.


Comments (Page 2)
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on May 07, 2005
Ooooooohhhhh...I see.. Theres more to that..
As we say about those types on the Jobsite..

They also require a window installed in their stomachs so they can see where they are going because it is so far ..well you know..LoL
on May 07, 2005
Button pushers are very common in life.

They usually don't take anything less than "hardball" or seeing that the buttons can no longer be pushed.

Glad to hear you have deep resources, Brad.
on May 07, 2005
I have to admit that "This might distract me from that rash I have.." is brilliant editing. Keep up the great work Brad.
on May 07, 2005
It's good to know our admin knows how to deal with this sort of thing.
on May 08, 2005
Asshat: The hygienic paper hat provided at a public toilet so that your ass may be properly attired while speaking at the porcelain podium.

on May 08, 2005
No, that's an assgasket.
on May 08, 2005
No, that's an assgasket


I know what those are!, those are what they put in public restrooms for placing on the seat before you sit..right?!!?..LoL


Thomassen - LMAO!..I have never heard that little "Jingle!"

Ah well, I suppose when all else fails, creative terminology takes the stage...

Carry on,
Zero.
on May 08, 2005
I troll but I don't particularly grief. The essence of a troll is to start a forum topic or drop a comment into an existing thread which is purely to piss either somebody or everybody off. On a lot of forums the debate is so gutter level this is almost pointless. Here the community are such shrinking violets I just don't see the point. (Troll comment. See how that works? It's absolutely my opinion but I know it's going to get somebody's back up.) In the RW community I was raised in (Irish, Northern.) there is a good deal of aggressive verbal sparring (not to mention the other kind) and that's just amongst friends. Egos get deflated. The fawning that I see on here is honestly virtually incomprehensible to me. (see above but I just have no other way to describe a heap of comments congratulating one guy being childish to another guy who annoyed him. It's so school yard and all the Mod has done is the equivalent of telling a teacher. Meh, if it works it works so I suppose I have to agree it's a distasteful if practical solution. Very 1984 though.)

"Griefers rarely get bored. They get off on trying to hurt other people. But they're usually stupid, lazy people who will take the path of least resistance. The best way to deal with them in my opinion is through discouragment."

I've not really run across too many griefers on forum boards. I actually feel your definition of griefer may be more coloured by what you personally feel is acceptable behaviour particularly when people aren't doing what you want them to do. Persistent name calling or whatever, yeah it's griefing if it's not consensual but who's doing that? I troll some rough forums and reasoned vulgarity is the order of the day. You might be kidding yourself if you imagine these griefers are fuming with frustration because you've edited their posts though - you may well stop them posting but they've probably moved on feeling they've won an immoral victory because you had to take such extreme measures.

Fredrickson on the Blues News forums was a semi-legendary serial troll who went out of his way to post sometimes incomprehensibe comments and launch into surreal invective for no apparent reason. He had a real flair though, bordering on genius at times and I miss him (eventually one of the bans managed to stick).

"In my case, we have lots of lawyers so any would-be blow hard making legal threats can learn the hard way just how nasty the US legal system can be, especially to someone skirting the boundaries of cyber-terrorism. "

This bit just makes me feel sorry for you. Especially when it comes after this:

"And if that doesn't work, there is a lot more uglier stuff (particularly if the griefer doesn't live in the US) that I can do"

Make up your mind.

Hey whatever, it's your play pen.
on May 08, 2005

You might be kidding yourself if you imagine these griefers are fuming with frustration because you've edited their posts though - you may well stop them posting but they've probably moved on feeling they've won an immoral victory because you had to take such extreme measures

This assumes I care what trolls think. I don't.  As an admin, my goal is to make them stop, period.  If they get some bizarre hard on thinking that they've won a moral victory or something, then hey, that's good with me.

Hey whatever, it's your play pen.

Bingo.  That's the point.  Admins decide what the rules are. And they must be prepared to vigorously enforce them.  Admins have to be able to take a step back and treat the user as an object when they get out of line.  For instance your line about "That makes me feel sorry for you" doesn't matter to me because, ultimately, it doesn't really matter what you think. It only matters what you (or any user) does

The site owner ultimatley has to decide what type of site they want to run. Admins that get caught up in the delicacies of "free speech" and what not ultimately get burned.  I consider griefers to be pathetic. They're essentially parasites, a pest to be rooted out of a healthy community.  Inexperienced forum admins tend to get stuck in the niceties of "fairness" and let them drive away quality users.

Griefing isn't "Sparring". Perhaps to some 35 year old virgin living in momma's basement refuse it might. But to a normal adult, and that's the audience I cater to, having the first comment of every news item you write say "eat shit fuckwad" or something to that effect is not verbal sparring. It's just trash and I consider taking out the trash to be part of my job. 

on May 08, 2005
Draginol.....you are BRILLIANT! Never would have thought of some of the stuff you mentioned....Hahahahahaha, i'd love to see some of those griefers faces when the comeback to see how people reacted to their comment....
on May 08, 2005
This assumes I care what trolls think.


That's 3 you asshats!

Don't make me come over there.


On another note: Draginol, this is supposed to be a family site, if you can't find a way to verbalize a point without profanity - then please don't post.
on May 08, 2005

this is supposed to be a family site, if you can't find a way to verbalize a point without profanity - then please don't post.

Bichur .... it's pretty difficult to reference an example without its use.

The point would be lost if reworded to 'go away, little boy'...

on May 08, 2005
Jafo ... understood, however could it have not been exampled without using hardcore language - ie f word?

After all the point was made in his 1st example and the language was not bad.
on May 09, 2005
Reply By: Bichur


--Understandable that this annoyed you [or whatever], but he is the admin., and yet you used 'asshats' so in a way you contradict what you say, so you are a hypocrit...hmmm? Ass, can be said to be profane, and used in 'asshat'
on May 09, 2005
What the? Froggles, who are you quoting?
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