Epic Generator -- a feature too far?

Mega ambitious..

Published on November 20, 2006 By Brad Wardell In GalCiv Journals

The idea behind the Epic Generator feature of Dark Avatar is pretty straight forward:

Turn your game into readable story complete with HTML and images showing how your empire grew.

But implementation, woha. By far, this has been the most expensive single feature of Dark Avatar requiring an immense logging system to put together keys that can later be turned into a story.

And after 5 months of work, I have a feeling it may end up getting cut from Dark Avatar. It's really a matter of resources -- which is more compelling to players? It's a tough call. But the practical reality is that the Epic Generator really may need AI programming which would bring me into it.

The problem with bringing me into helping with the Epic Generator is that that means I wouldn't be working on the AI. And I think the AI really needs as much time as humanly possible.

So the Epic Generator is on notice -- we'll know within 2 weeks whether this feature is going to have to be cut or not. It'll be a bummer if it is. To my knowledge, no game has ever tried to retell the story of a given game with this kind of narrative before. And there appears to be a reason for that.

If it does get cut, I'm sure there will be a lot of bummed out players. I know I'll be bummed out. I love this kind of thing. Today, for instance, I spent a lot of time putting in flavor descriptions for ship components and such. It's pure fluff (like the epic generator) but it adds heart to the game. I love that kind of stuff.

So we'll see how things progress. We'll know pretty soon.

Comments (Page 1)

Martok

on Nov 20, 2006

Noooooo!! If the Epic Generator gets cut, I'll definitely be one of the bummed-out players. Not that I don't understand your explanation for why it might not make it into the expansion, but I really really hope it doesn't come to that.

Speaking only for myself, the EG is probably the biggest attraction in Dark Avatar. I know you're right in that it's essentially "fluff", but I've been really looking forward to it. If it ends up having to go, I'll understand; but I'll be very sad if it does.

Frogboy

on Nov 20, 2006

I'd be sad too. It's one of the things I'm most looking forward to as well. But I also wouldn't want it in the game unless it was done well. Already, more time has been spent on the Epic Generator than was spent on, for instance, the entire AI of GalCiv II or the entire combat system. There's just a ton of stuff that has had to be done in order to make it possible.

Cauldyth

on Nov 20, 2006

Well, when you first mentioned the Epic Generator, I had two thoughts:

- Either you know something I don't, or that's going to be a massive undertaking.

- It's cool and all, but... not something I would have ever asked for in a feature list.

To be honest, I won't miss it if it gets dropped. I doubt I'd ever use it. But I don't post games on the Metaverse either, so I'm obviously not much into sharing my games with other people.

That's just my own personal taste though, and I know there will be plenty of people bummed out if it does get dropped. If you do decide to drop it, I suggest combining that announcement with a list of things you'll be able to include as a result of the freed up developer hours. That might help mute the negative reaction a bit.

Moosetek13

on Nov 20, 2006

It would be a nice perk, but I would not miss it terribly.

I might use it once or twice, but it would get old pretty fast. I would rather have a better AI and more work done on the actual game than a better Epic Generator.

And after all that time spent on it, if it does not measure up to the nit-pickers expectations there will be no end of it in the complaint dept.

And from what you said, Brad, it sounds like it is time to cut your losses on this idea.

Mirvnillith

on Nov 20, 2006

Would you consider leaving the "logging" in and enable us players to provide resources/work for an external Epic Generator? Or is the logging in itself part of the resource/time problem?

cactoblasta

on Nov 20, 2006

It was a very impressive concept, and even if it doesn't get off the ground it may be worthwhile leaving the plugs in so that modders with more free time can give it a shot. Kudos for making the attempt in the first place. So far as I'm aware no one else has ever tried to make their games epic in that way.

Maybe it'd be worth a try for Galciv 3; it might be easier if it's built-in from the very beginning.

Unknown_Enemy

on Nov 20, 2006

I would even settle for a dumbed down epic generator rather than none.
That's really something I am looking into.

Neilo

on Nov 20, 2006

NOOOOOOOO!.....DONT DO IT...LEAVE IT IN!! LEAVE IT IN!!

Ok so maybe that was a bit over the top but seriously, it will be a great loss if it is indeed cut from DA. I think it is one of the greatest ideas to be put into a game and AFAIK totally revolutionary. And yes count me as one of the Bummed.

If it is too much in too little time for DA, and it seems so if it needs that much programming, then how about a later patch or at the very least don't shelve it and perhaps keep it mind for the distant GalCiv 3.

Morberis

on Nov 20, 2006

Personally I like the idea of the epic generator, practically though I don't see it being used too much. Personally I would never read a story someone had produced using the epic generator and would only look at my own for simple amusement.

webnavigator

on Nov 20, 2006

If you don't get the "Epic Generator" done perhaps have an automatic screenshot ability; so that we CAN make stories easier for our games?

At least that part would help out a lot.

mystic

on Nov 20, 2006

more time has been spent on the Epic Generator than was spent on, for instance, the entire AI of GalCiv II

auch, even though i like the epic generator, without a worthy IA the game is nearly worthless (like most games though).
One of the things that made galciv so great is the IA that was pretty good.

i've seen far to many games were the IA just simply s*cked. Command & Conquer Generals for instance, nice game but bad IA, wouldn't attack more than like 2 or 3 times.

I'd prefer that more time is spend on the IA improving it even futher and making good use of diplomacy, world building, spies and combat than an epic generator.

sam0t

on Nov 20, 2006

more time has been spent on the Epic Generator than was spent on, for instance, the entire AI of GalCiv II

For the love of god CUT it!

It does sound cool but I really don´t think post game story is worth this much sacrifice. I mean, would you not rather enjoy more wiser AI when your actually playing the game than a post game report??

MacsenLP

on Nov 20, 2006

If it comes down to a choice between an AI which stands a chance of winning versus a good human player or a story generator of how the the player kicks AI ass every time, the AI improvements are the obvious priority.

Although Gal Civ 2 is the best game of its type I have played I feel the AI still has a long way to go.

Perhaps the story generator could be added in a future patch or multiplayer expansion that was talked about.

Lenius.

Alstein

on Nov 20, 2006

Agreed. The AI, especially since MP isn't in this, is the #1, #2, and #3 priority.

Everything else is small potatoes.

+1 to cutting this feature.

Eytan Zweig

on Nov 20, 2006

I'm in the "I never saw the attractiveness of the epic generator to begin with" crowd. It seems to me like I would look at the epics for a game or two and after that never use the feature again. Not because I don't like making up epic stories out of my games, but because I do, but I like making them up *myself*, in my own head. It's just not a feature I want automated.

I know it appeals to many people, and it certainly wouldn't have been a negative feature to have, but it shouldn't come at the expense of core gameplay. Not by a long shot.

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