Epic Generator -- a feature too far?

Mega ambitious..

Published on November 20, 2006 By Brad Wardell In GalCiv Journals

The idea behind the Epic Generator feature of Dark Avatar is pretty straight forward:

Turn your game into readable story complete with HTML and images showing how your empire grew.

But implementation, woha. By far, this has been the most expensive single feature of Dark Avatar requiring an immense logging system to put together keys that can later be turned into a story.

And after 5 months of work, I have a feeling it may end up getting cut from Dark Avatar. It's really a matter of resources -- which is more compelling to players? It's a tough call. But the practical reality is that the Epic Generator really may need AI programming which would bring me into it.

The problem with bringing me into helping with the Epic Generator is that that means I wouldn't be working on the AI. And I think the AI really needs as much time as humanly possible.

So the Epic Generator is on notice -- we'll know within 2 weeks whether this feature is going to have to be cut or not. It'll be a bummer if it is. To my knowledge, no game has ever tried to retell the story of a given game with this kind of narrative before. And there appears to be a reason for that.

If it does get cut, I'm sure there will be a lot of bummed out players. I know I'll be bummed out. I love this kind of thing. Today, for instance, I spent a lot of time putting in flavor descriptions for ship components and such. It's pure fluff (like the epic generator) but it adds heart to the game. I love that kind of stuff.

So we'll see how things progress. We'll know pretty soon.

Comments (Page 5)

Darkspire

on Nov 21, 2006

I remember fondly reading through the data of your civ's turns at game end in CivII, if you can pull it in GCII then make them available on the Metaverse in the characters games listings it would really enhance GCII no end. It would be like opening up a whole bible of strategy tips...

Well my fingers are crossed it makes the cut

TIPedersen

on Nov 21, 2006

I just finished my first game, and got to say I love it.

What made it even better was the Epic story I could read on the summary afterwards. Although it seems unfinished, which is understandable as this is a beta, I hope, I really hope this feature don't get cut. It was really fun to read the computers version of what happend.

TIP

drakonfire

on Nov 21, 2006

Since you already have a skeleton system in place, what about keeping the basic skeleton (maybe polish it a bit more) and then letting players submit alternate ways of saying things, in essence, let us flesh the story out, we'll skin that sucker if you give us the bones and muscle to do it

Lord Reliant

on Nov 21, 2006

I'm sure there would be plenty of chances to throw in that wacky humor Gal Civ has been known for with content creation and that would be pretty dang enjoyable to read. Here's another thought-

What about post Expansion pack release patching? Gal Civ 2 implemented quite a few new features post-release, so perhaps the Epic Generator could be one of those. Again, it's a massive undertaking, but if it'd free resources now that could be diverted there later if time permits, great. I still think logging would be the best option, as long as it was somewhat configurable and put out data that others could harness for story-telling/game analysis.

Glad you found the link interesting and possibly helpful. I'm more of a graphs, stats, and bulleted points guy myself, but prose certainly has its place, too, but probably not at the expense of a fun game.

Oh, and there's only ~3 months left to the release of DA and that includes holidays in there somewhere. I hope you guys get to take some time off!

TherilAlPenn

on Nov 21, 2006

The EG is something I had always wanted to see in a 4X game, and was the main reason I preordered as well... both to use and to see how well it works out.

0110100

on Nov 21, 2006

The Stardock people could include the Epic generator for the Febuary edition in a patch.

0110100

on Nov 21, 2006

Edit: should it be cut off

Wheeloffire

on Nov 21, 2006

Event logging with custom appending.

Screen shot icon.

Mission accomplished. Enough said.

Stromko

on Nov 21, 2006

I hope this feature manages to be implemented, it's the only reason I wanted Dark Avatar. More flavoring, more immersion, and something to show for all the hours you put into actually conquering / losing a galaxy.

I don't find the asteroid fields or the research changes or anything else to be very compelling personally.

Dan Greene

on Nov 21, 2006

How do you keep the story random, that is how do you describe similar events in different ways? Or are there a few random sayings that repeat themselves over and over?

I would imagine the amount of writing for each event would take a few seconds but since it would be really dull to reread over an epic that is pretty much the same I'm curious as to how you can keep it fresh. Have you been able to get the variables down to the word level or sentence level?

Chipwich

on Nov 22, 2006

At the veryt least could there be a primiteive form about it? something ala civ 4 ending?

Tommymac

on Nov 22, 2006

Personally, I never really thought much about this feature...not sure if I would use it or not.

But then, I thought similiar things about the Shipbuilder...until I actually used it, and found out how fun it was.

Logging, Screenies, those would be very satisfying things for me.

I would hate for things like new events, UP resolutions, etc to be cut for the EG however...

If you can save the code and perhaps implement it in a future release, I don't really see a down side to cutting it; but do see a down side to having the work eat away at game features.

Just my .02

Foslex

on Nov 22, 2006

Please keep this feature. It is far and away the one I am most excited about. For me it means the difference between immediate purchase and waiting until the price comes down, but that's not nearly the issue for me. I want more heart and soul in my games, and the Epic Generator is just that. Make it, and make take all the time in the world to force it to be a genre standard.

John Earles

on Nov 22, 2006

I also fall into the "Epic Generator - Cut it if ya gotta!" camp. I am more interested in the core game and that means the Computer AIs. I appreciate the developer's initiative and desire to create a new and evolutionary features, but in the end (to me) it is a "side" feature not a "core" feature.

Regarding the existing logging, I've worked on systems in the past that do Event Publishing, and you could then add a "Event Logging" window that would list all possible events and the ability to enable / disable the capture of them. You could even add a space for "User Text" around the event and certain event parameters. This would allow the people who enjoy writing reports to captute the events they want, with their own text. They could take it from there.

I much prefer a dedicated "Event Logging" window that cluttering up main game windows with a Log Event button.

Campaigner

on Nov 22, 2006

5months on the epic generator?!

I'd say this is the biggest screwup Stardock have done so far. 5 months of development time on something that isn't used when playing the game....unbelievable....

You must set your priorities straight and build from the ground up. If the Dark Avatar project is like adding a balcony, garage and a swimming pool to the house (GalCiv II) then you've been messing with the balcony for WAY too long which will result in a too small garange and a swimmingpool with cold water.

It's great that you're enthusiastic about your projects but you really must prioritise correctly

If looking on it from the bright side, you can remedy the damage with good support. If it was any other company (EA f.e) the house would fall apart like it was made of paper.

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