I would like to hear from the Stardock Dev who is working on this. Is it something he thinks can be 'dumbed down' or not? Is this something that can be shelved for this expansion in exchange for another feature.

I like the epic generator idea and would not like to see it go. However if it is going to cause a reduction in enjoyment in the rest of the game then it should be shelved immediately and the resources moved to a different part of the expansion pack.

Maybe it can be picked up on again for the next expansion or altered to just give us a list of the major occurrences in the game and maybe take a screenie or two of these events....

I am sure the decision you guys make will not be made lightly and fully support whichever decision you make!!

Drengin

Something that came to mind during this discussion is apparently you can have your Xbox 360 create it's own blog. Here's an example from someone I know:

http://www.360voice.com/blog.asp?tag=JLDeano

Tying this into the topic at hand- a lot of this topic is taking data (in this case from an Xbox) and applying AI to it. But, you can already see that it is repetitive quickly. I would imagine the Epic Generator would be that way, too. However, again, let the community take the data as deemed "epic" (hopefully configurable) and then throw it into a parser like this, or at least some sort of analyzer. Or, how about tie it into the Joe User website or another blog page? How cool would that be? Modders would love it.

Poor BoogieBac. Sorry you had such a giant undertaking- know the community appreciated all your hard work in this area, even if some (or all) of it is cut. I'm sure if you would have completed the project Sci-Fi publishers would be knocking down your door!

That's me...I'm the optimistic schmuck that insisted the task would be easier than it'd turn out to be   

The real problem comes down to resources, and how we want to divvy out our remaining time on the expansion pack. We have new events that we want to create, new United Planets issues that would be specific to the new game mechanics, and a load of little polish features that would drastically increase the quality of the game-part of DA.

We could also spend that time with the uphill battle that has become the Epic Generator, hopefully reaching the level of satisfaction that we're shooting for, but have to leave out some fun extras that we wanted to throw in for you guys.

My fear at this point is that the Epic Generator has been an resource hog every step of the way. With every required feature, we'd think "OK, here comes the easy part"...but that never came. It's like trudging through a unexplored swamp...you know where you're headed, but you don’t know the distance or how draining the trip will be.

IF we happen to pull it, know that it wouldn't be scrapped for good...with some tender love 'n care it could become a really great feature, but with the logic processing and content creation required, it's defiantly a game mechanic that will have to be put through the ringer.

As Brad said, we have the data to print out a list of key events, and if we have time perhaps even slip in some hot keys for screenshot grabs, so players wouldn't be left completely in the cold.

We'll see what we can pull of in the next few days...perhaps the swamp will dry up and we'll gain some nuch needed ground   

Till then...back to the compiler!

"He made some progress on Gears of War winning 4 achievements, and then the lightweight went to bed. Freakin' wuss."

Perhaps the epic generator needs to insult the player more    I also like how many of the posts are just the XBox complaining how the player hasn't been playing it.

Good stuff, thanks for the link L.Reliant!

I;m going to have to chime in as one of the people who would love to at least see the logging data stay in. While I would love to see the epic generator, the data could at least be usefull for community projects.

The EG always sounded like a great idea that pushed the boundaries of interactive fiction. That said, it may be frustrating to see it go but I'd rather have you guys spend your resources on actual gameplay items.

I do think it would be nice to have the logging and screenshot features enabled.   

This feature is classic overengineering - too much in too little time. But that doesn't mean its a bad idea.

I wouldn't scrap the epic generator altogether - its really cool for those of us who like to write AARs and is a really neat feature.

I would change the scope so that it is managable for you to create and gives more control to the user.

why not change the epic generator somewhat so that there is player has full control over what is logged via a hot key press and the ability to enter their own comments?

Have a hot key whereby the game takes a snapshot of the screen and brings up a window where the player can enter in comments about what is going on.

have all the results placed into a series of HTML pages that the player can view once the game is complete.

I was actually thinking that if you and your enemy have fleets in the same sector for which a battle would be interesting (that is, it could go either way) then you might at least get an inconspicuous prompt saying 'this is a moment that should be captured for posterity' - then it's essentially up to the player whether they want to grab a screenie showing the fleets positioning to attack (or retreat) - but also a ping on the mini-map might be an idea, so you don't forget to actually perform those attacks.

We have new events that we want to create, new United Planets issues that would be specific to the new game mechanics, and a load of little polish features that would drastically increase the quality of the game-part of DA.

That sentence is reason enough to cut the EG.

I totally understand and appreciate the dilemma. But, please, consider keeping it in a future release... If it doesn't appear in the upcoming expansion, that's cool. But maybe it could be a release between this and the next expansion?? Pretty please?

Ah, too bad for the Epic Generator (and Boogiebac's hard work, of course), but something might still be salvageable. Based on my own experiences and what seems to be the consensus here, I would suggest you implement the following plan (the steps are listed in decreasing importance and estimated practicality) by:

1.) Shutting off work on the Epic Generator - as everyone has said, it will probably turn into a risky and/or costly logistical battle at the expense of other fun little features. It is a great idea in theory, and might be implementable in a future expansion or sequel, but we all (or at least most) would understand if it got set aside for now. You might also build the skeleton for it and leave players to fill in the rest, of course.

2.) Putting in a Data Log - something that could record the hard facts in the game, perhaps with a taunt or two thrown in by the AI This would allow players to write their own stories, and would allow a lot more creativity in them.

3.) Putting in an Easy Screenshot Capture - some function and hotkey that lets you easily and efficiently take high-quality screenshots. A function that lets you organize them and/or add comments to them would also be appreciated, which leads into the next step ...

4.) Putting in a Photo Album or Storybook Editor - ideally, something styled after what is available in The Sims 2 and similar games. What I am searching for is a component of the game that lets you access the Data Log and Screenshot Log, and use them to easily create a story or gameplay example. The gameplay examples the Brad and others periodically upload are great examples of how this system could work: stories composed primarily of text but with annotated screenshots giving life to it. Giving us a relatively simple tool to do that would be greatly appreciated, and would go great with the next step.

5.) A Web database (or subcategory of the existing one) built specifically for such gameplay examples, or a forum or other medium made with accessibility first in mind.

Of course, I realize that the later 2 features might possibly take more effort than the Epic Generator, but they would be a great substitute for all interested parties, until technology develops enough for you to [realisticly] program computers to write "Epics".

Whatever you do, good luck, and know that you have my support!

I;m going to have to chime in as one of the people who would love to at least see the logging data stay in. While I would love to see the epic generator, the data could at least be usefull for community projects.

Even if it's not used for writing action reports, the truly geeky among us can use the data to compare the sizes of our playing skillz.

"What? You waited that long before building the ? I would have built it early on, so as to achieve the full benefit of it by the end of the game. Still, I suppose you managed to keep the AI from getting it anyway. That's something at least."

Already, more time has been spent on the Epic Generator than was spent on, for instance, the entire AI of GalCiv II or the entire combat system.

I'm sure for some gamers the EG will be the nicest bit of chrome on a game they've ever had, while others (like me, I expect) will probably use it once and never again. Maybe a poll is in order, as this seems like a trade-off: resources spent developing the EG could go elsewhere.

By far, this has been the most expensive single feature of Dark Avatar... And after 5 months of work... Already, more time has been spent on the Epic Generator than was spent on, for instance, the entire AI of GalCiv II or the entire combat system.

I always knew it was going to be more complicated to pull off than it sounded at first but....I had no idea.

For a feature you will only ever see at the very end of a game it sounds to me utterly disproportionate to its cost. How much is finishing it going to detract from other features we will spend alot more time playing with? I had been thinking of it as a cool 'extra' feature when in fact its swallowing up the budget, sadly I've got to say cut it. Maybe it could be finished in a future expansion or if we're really lucky in a post-release update (not going to happen I know) but I think there are fare more important things to focus on in DA.

It's a shame but I really don't think its going to be worth 'cutting corners' elsewhere to crowbar it in.

AI uber alles!