Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
Published on August 9, 2008 By Draginol In Demigod Journals

The initial inspiration for Demigod was heavily based on the Warcraft 3 mod, Defense of the Ancients. If you've never played it, Defense of the Ancients is an incredibly clever game concept in which players team up on on a single map choosing between many different heroes. How one customizes their hero makes all the difference.

Demigod works similarly in that you choose amongst several different heroes (your Demigods). Some heroes are called Generals whose strengths come from their ability to manipulate their minions and engage in larger scale strategy. Other heroes are called Assassins who are immensely powerful individuals whose strengths focus on just being massive butt kickers.

Defense of the Ancients could almost be described as a game where two rivers are flowing against each other. Each player is trying to get their river to make headway against their opponent's river until the flow enters their base. My analogy may not make sense unless you've played DotA. But if you have, you probably get my meaning.  Demigod does not play quite like that.

In Demigod you have a lot of strategic choices you have to make. Arenas have other elements that give one side or the other significant advantages. This means players have to choose often to give up some ground in order to gain longer term advantages. That is, there are certain parts of the Arena that you can control that give your side significant advantages. Hence, there are multiple strategic objectives.

The Demigod gains strength through experience, as they level up, the player can choose to strengthen different abilities or add new powers. Players can also use money to purchase items that give their side or their Demigod additional advantages. This is basically the same as was found in DotA.

So it's definitely fair to say that DotA served as inspiration for Demigod. But Demigod will ultimately be somewhat different in play style. Right now, myself, Chris Taylor, and Mike Marr are putting our combined design experiences together in trying to create a unique, innovative, and compelling strategy game experience.

More to come on this soon.


Comments (Page 4)
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on Aug 14, 2008
Good post eternal cat. Sums up alot of nice points well.

Nowadays if someone makes a scifi real time strategy game, its considered part of a genre (command and conquer, starcraft, heck even dune) rather than a rip off a previous game with updated graphics. Perhaps Demigod is starting a new genre that falls nicely in with that of DOTA. Time will tell.

Again, I also hope that the Demigod community does not become sour with the influx of DOTA players. I think the matchmaking system and online stats/clan organization may help with some of the anonymity and "noobs".

DOTA simply does not have the support to combat these problems. Sure it has a good group of developers and a large online community, but Battle net and the fact that Warcraft III wasn't set up for DOTA severely limit their response to issues such as leavers, abuse, and matchmaking.

For Demigod, voice chat will be a good and bad thing (mute option is a must, see COD4). Good in that some things that are typed in the heat of battle can easily be misinterpreted and offensive. Bad, because now you can hear the idiots rather than just read their words.

Online ranking/matchmaking should ideally put you with people of the same level of play (new players with new players, experienced "pro players" with others of the same). This should improve greatly the expectation players have of their teams.

Perhaps a player reputation meter (with possibly a few different traits) could be implemented. Sure there will be some abuse, but it seems to work with many online sites such as Ebay, craiglist, etc.

on Aug 19, 2008
To be honest, I can't see a new DotA-based genre working well - the whole Tower Defence theme is okay (not great) all over the internet and a few of them make some decent changes, but I'm not sure I want to see hundreds of "push and level" games. Demigod will probably make a good game, but endless variations on the basic theme could be painful. (and if anyone calls any of them "addicting", I'll boycott the interwebs)

Seeing how DotA's online play system is 6 years old, I bet Demigod will have improvements. There's no built-in way to keep noobs/flamers out, not even banning for using a maphack. A built-in shareable banlist function is probably a good idea - maybe a system which bans the CD-key (however Demigod's DRM works, hopefully not annoyingly restrictive ) if too many bans are accrued.

Blizzard have made their support for DotA clear: they're not going to do any official backing, but they do realise that DotA is almost solely responsible for the continued WC3 sales, and apparently some Blizzard employees play it. The latest patch fixed a bug in DotA which was too deep for IceFrog to deal with, so somebody up there is looking after DotA. Still, no way is Blizzard going to upgrade WC3's access to Battle.net now. I think they're expecting that either DotA will be ported to Starcraft 2, which (presumably) will have a modern online play mode, or that DotA players will stick to WC3 and be happy with the current Battle.net. Starting anew with Demigod should work wonders.

Built-in voice chat is tbh a pain for me - my limited experiences with Xbox Live have left me with a wish to strangle all prepubescent n0000bs. If I want to use it, I can go on Ventrilo when I'm playing with my friends. And if there's an easily accessible voice chat system, the n00bs go "n00b" if you don't use it/mute them. Someone on your team angry because you muted them could do a lot of damage to the game, methinks.
on Aug 19, 2008
(and if anyone calls any of them "addicting", I'll boycott the interwebs)

They're all addicting.
on Aug 19, 2008
wtf? windexglow. are u f***ing retarded?

Be nice mate. I didn't insult you, and besides. I don't take 1 minute with my posts.

one thing DotA very old so complaining about its concept or its appearance is stupid since it was one of the first to try it at that scale.

What I meant is that dota isn't, nor was ever a concept in any major aspect.

then u said u got "kicked" but in DotA that can't be because there no way of kicking a player without the player willingly quitting the game.

Mate, there are many, many ways to disconnect someone from the game, even without triggers.

if u say that its concept sucks then tell that to the hundreds of thousands of people that play it.

Oh god! Opinions, they Burn!

even though it isn't really that popular in the US its played by almost 500,000 people in Asia.

Oh god, other people have opinions on games!!

in ur first game, u said that u bought the wrong item then stop buying scroll or recipes because u need the items first before being the recipe scrolls in making them in better equipment.

Yes yes, because there are clear instructions telling me what to buy and when to buy them. besides, I believe it was a weapon.

no seriously, killing 2 creeps and u got kicked, what did u actually do? my guess is that u charged the enemy without any common sense of seeing if ur going to die in the process.
I killed several creeps, there was a tantrum thrown by the other players and I was than kicked.

And I've played wc3 melee before; retreat the hero when it's going to die.

stop making up stories just because u suck at a game or doesn't get the actual game play. in a game usually a player kills about 100 creeps.

Sorry, but you're the one making up the stories. Why would I want to lie here, I simply posted my experience with it.

in ur third game, the enemy gets money or gold from killing an opponent so probably having committed so much stupid decisions that ended in ur death caused the enemy to gain there proper item so quickly that ur teammates couldn't no longer fight with the slightest chance of winning.

I attacked an enemy several times, than noticed a team mate was standing further back. So I retreated to him. After noob was thrown around a few times, people left and I was kicked.

- stop whining about a game u suck at.

I'm hardly whining.

and it takes more than 3 incomplete tries to fully experience that game since from ur description u took about 25 mins in total playing that game while one complete game usually takes about an hour in average.

Sorry, but I don't enjoy spending several hours playing a game to get the "full experience" in order for it to be fun.
Some people don't have 8 hours of free time.

And great post eternal cat.
on Aug 19, 2008
(and if anyone calls any of them "addicting", I'll boycott the interwebs)They're all addicting.


Addictive, possibly, but addicting is just a word I have issues with.

Lol, dota player... you're really helping the whole "DotA community are assholes" argument. So many trolls on so few interwebs.

Windexglow: It's probably that I only go on the DA forums and a couple of private friend forums, but a compliment feels odd. I must disagree with "DotA is not a concept in any major aspect", though - there's nothing out there which matches the creep-tide gameplay.
on Aug 20, 2008
Well I have to comment, first 'dota player' learn to speak intelligently, spell 'you' fully and people will give you more respect.

Now, to point one thing out to Windexglow, when people left and then you got kicked, what probably happened is the host left, no one else could host, and the game ended as a whole.

And the concept used by dota (i.e. AoS style maps) was at the time very innovative. And while enjoy DotA I give it a meh it's ok rating, demigod is definitely going to prove diffrent, it has already.
on Aug 20, 2008
Mooey; when a host leaves you can continue playing the game.
When you're connection is terminated you are forced to quit.
on Aug 20, 2008
When the host leaves you can continue to play, ONLY IF some one else can host, (i.e. they must not have a firewall(usually it's a firewall)), and most people on bnet cannot host. In some cases when everyone leaves, you SOMETIMES get a server split that allows you to play alone, but not always.

And yes you are right when your connection gets terminated you are forced to quit, WHICH is what happens when a host leaves and no one else can host.

Not only have I played on bnet since RoC but I make maps and mods for it, I know what I'm talking about.
on Aug 20, 2008
Once a game starts there is no "host". It's all peer to peer.
on Aug 20, 2008
Love dota and i love what you guys are doing!!! Keep it up!
on Aug 20, 2008
Once a game starts there is no "host". It's all peer to peer.


Actually no. Someone is designated the host (almost always the guy who made the game), and he remains the host until he leaves. Under ideal circumstances his leaving would be at the end of the game, and everyone would drop as normal, but if he were to lag enough so that some/all of the other players couldn't reach him, he'd drag some/none of the other players with him causing a split. If none of the remaining players have the ability to host (you can shut off your hosting ability, rumours abound that it helps stop splits (it does, just now how everyone thinks)), those players get booted back to whatever channel they were in. If someone can host though, usually whoever's next highest on the player roster, they take over and start sending updates to the players they still have contact with. Since some of the players are still connected to the original host, they ignore the new host's commands (cheaters!) and thus a split is born. It's an odd thing when it happens, I've been in a large game of SWAT: Aftermath (7 players) and about half way through, after one person decided to leave on his own, the game split and two of us were left in a survival game while the others played on thinking we left. >P
on Aug 21, 2008
You are thinking of a server model, where players send commands to the host, who then sends commands to all the other players. It doesn't work that way in most games. I know for a fact Supreme Commander is peer to peer (and logically Demigod will be as well). Everyone is connected to everyone, and everyone sends packets to everyone. There is no host designation when the game starts. First Person Shooters may handle it differently, but nearly every RTS follows the peer to peer model (with the extremely rare exception of WC3, which is routed through a central server I believe, so even then everything is fine if the "host" quits).
on Aug 21, 2008
I thought we were talking about Wc3 though, I know its got a server model. I agree though that peer to peer makes more sense for gaming with units on a large scale (over a few dozen). For FPS', or games where you control only a single character, it makes very little sense though because it's too easy to tell everyone, "Yeah, uh, my guy's over there. You must have missed the packets that told you that. Oh, and I just did a billion damage to you through a wall." While technically you could do such a thing for an RTS, the game is structured in such a way (usually) that large numbers of units are easily built and/or replaced, and the damage of an individual is rarely as important. Plus, I think someone's going to notice when your army doesn't die to superior forces. >)
I'm pretty sure that all of Blizzard's games follow the client/server model, I know Starcraft had some similar issues with crappy hosts bringing down the rest of the players, but the same players hosted by a different person would be fine (except the one lagger).
on Aug 21, 2008
Starcraft used the same model as SupCom. The host is only necessary for mediating connections to all the other players. Once that is established, the host doesn't matter. If the host doesn't have proper port forwarding then you won't be able to connect to the other players.
on Aug 21, 2008
To use an analogy, while the games use a peer-to-peer model for most things (there is way to much going on for a server-client setup), they do need a 'host' to serve as traffic cop to make sure the data gets where it needs to go.
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